tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post5566304214449266520..comments2024-03-26T14:44:37.985-04:00Comments on D-Ed Reckoning: The Poverty Meme Elephant in the RoomKDeRosahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06853211164976890091noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post-17360861344601987592010-10-12T01:18:07.953-04:002010-10-12T01:18:07.953-04:00It's telling that Berliner lists as No.1 in hi...It's telling that Berliner lists as No.1 in his six factors "low birth weight and nongenetic prenatal influences" but does not list anywhere "low intelligence." Perhaps he is afraid that if he did he might find himself accused of believing that's a result of genetic prenatal influences.Linda Seebachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06426741820143208210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post-69103071991695102572010-10-07T13:53:12.295-04:002010-10-07T13:53:12.295-04:00OK. We've known for a long time that SES and ...OK. We've known for a long time that SES and standardized achievement test scores are correlated, but only since the Coleman report in 1966 has the meme of a causal relationship become popular.<br /><br />The meme is popular for several reasons. It lets the schools off the hook for mis-instruction. It provides an argument for those promoting income redistribution. It provides a rationale for latent and overt racism/classism.<br /><br />Instructional achievements are caused by instruction. But with instruction remaining a black box between wishful <i>standards</i> and instructionally insensitive <i>standardized tests</i>, kids don't stand a chance.Dick Schutzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09815175767173164494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post-79211282468074598362010-10-06T16:58:37.368-04:002010-10-06T16:58:37.368-04:00RMD,
I'm not sure how you construe a racial s...RMD,<br /><br />I'm not sure how you construe a racial superiority argument from my post. I simply made a factual statement about disparities across racial groups in the chart that did not seem to be explainable by SES or parental education levels. In fact, I have made strong arguments against racial superiority explanations on this blog (for example: http://d-edreckoning.blogspot.com/2008/08/iq-conundrum-for-broader-bolder.html).<br /><br />That having been said, I am ducking the bigger question that Ken raises -- what might be responsible for these differences -- because I don't have a good answer. But I think it is a question ripe for investigation.<br /><br />ParryParry Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01109638345554364909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post-8362507416669428742010-10-06T09:53:39.169-04:002010-10-06T09:53:39.169-04:00My next post will be on the Harlem Children's ...My next post will be on the <a href="http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2010/0728_hcz_whitehurst.aspx" rel="nofollow">Harlem Children's Zone</a> which is related to this post.KDeRosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06853211164976890091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post-64982909670514981662010-10-06T09:50:27.742-04:002010-10-06T09:50:27.742-04:00Parry, SES and student achievement are correlated....Parry, SES and student achievement are correlated. (You can't tell the tightness of the fit with this graph.) But, as you indicate SES can clearly not be the only independent causal variable. In fact, SES doesn't have to be an independent variable at all; there could be a third variable(s) that drives both SES and student performance.<br /><br />RMD, Stanley Sue and Sumie Okazaki, noted in their paper, "Asian-American educational achievements: A phenomenon in search of an explanation" that the parenting styles and values found in East Asian-American homes tend to correlate with lower test scores when they are found in white homes. <br /><br />Stephen, is that the best you have to offer?KDeRosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06853211164976890091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post-12543616419256054502010-10-05T22:58:34.402-04:002010-10-05T22:58:34.402-04:00Got anything more recent than a cherry-picked 15 y...Got anything more recent than a cherry-picked 15 year old study to support your point?Stephen Downeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06140591903467372209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post-61686489493600360472010-10-05T22:19:00.489-04:002010-10-05T22:19:00.489-04:00Parry . . . are you arguing for racial superiority...Parry . . . are you arguing for racial superiority?<br /><br />I would instead argue for superiority of expectations. Here are my un-scientific observations . . .<br /><br />The Asian parents I know expect more out of their children. I go to the pool and see Asian parents teaching their parents to swim laps at what might be considered to be a young age. I know an Asian dad who makes his son do 100 kicks each leg each day. And when I go to Kumon, I see a lot of Asian and Indian children (the caucasians are usually there for remediation).RMDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08625944233681296812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25541994.post-33397241301704004922010-10-05T20:43:48.098-04:002010-10-05T20:43:48.098-04:00Ken,
I'm not entirely sure I understand the p...Ken,<br /><br />I'm not entirely sure I understand the point you're making. The two graphs seem to strongly support an argument that SES and student achievement are tightly linked: within each racial sub-group, there is a consistent positive relationship between parental income or parental levels of education and student achievement. Because there are clear disparities across racial groups within the same socio-economic or parental education level, one could argue that something else is also going on, but the strong relationship between either SES or parent education and student achievement is remarkably consistent within each racial group.<br /><br />ParryParry Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01109638345554364909noreply@blogger.com